It must be a very special occasion when a Nobel prize winner takes the trouble to travel to Flawil. When asked what motivated the ETH Professor and Nobel prize winner Richard R. Ernst to venture into tranquil Eastern Switzerland to visit BUCHI Labortechnik AG, the scientist was quick to answer: in order to see the wonderful instruments made by BUCHI, not just in a laboratory but at the place where they are developed and produced. Christian Zwicky, Director of Innovations & Marketing took this opportunity to ask Professor Richard R. Ernst about his fascinating life as a scientist and researcher. 'I am very pleased to be here with you and look forward to meeting you', says the Professor from the ETH (Technical University Zurich) as the discussion begins.

Mr Richard R. Ernst, what does working in a laboratory mean to you?

The laboratory provides the right atmosphere for a chemist because experimentation is a central part of his work. The laboratory is indispensable for my work as a chemist. Unfortunately, my duties as a professor and group leader force me to spend less and less time in the lab and more time in the office. Although I was never really comfortable with that. It is very important for a chemist to carry out experiments with his own hands and to be able to intervene in certain processes. Generally speaking, I feel that people's hands are more important for them than their mind, which is always regarded so highly .

Have you ever worked with a rotary evaporator yourself?

I constructed my first distillation column at a very early age, when I was about fourteen years old. To this day I'm fascinated by this process. At that time – I was still at home with my parents– I worked with boiling stones in order to prevent boiling retardation. Rotary evaporation appeared much later, when I started my work in physical chemistry at the ETH. Changes in the aggregate phases are extremely important in chemistry. For this reason, evaporation will continue to be very important in the future.

From your point of view, which direction is laboratory work heading toward? What will change and what will stay the same?

In my experience, work in the laboratory has involved more and more instruments in the last 30 to 50 years. When I started, the equipment available was really very simple. Today, a lot of electronics are involved and computers are used to speed things up. This development will no doubt continue in some way. The chemist will become a mere 'operator', rather than the 'actor'.This means that a lot of inspiration is lost. BUCHI is a laudible exception in this respect. The instruments developed and sold by BUCHI are relatively simple. They are, in the proverbial sense, made of glass. When the chemist works with this equipment, he can see what is happening and also intervene in the working process. In this way he retains a feeling for the processes and, in addition, there's room for inspiration and innovation.

Can you explain why you are so fascinated by chemistry, and is there perhaps a particular event that you associate with the beginning of this fascination?

Yes, I can remember such an event very clearly. I've always been a very curious guy, and have investigated my environment very thoroughly. At home, in Gottfried-Kellerstrasse, in Winterthur, we lived in an old brick house. For me as a boy this house was wonderful because it was a real treasure trove. One day I found a box in the attic. This box contained the last 'remains' of my uncle, who had died in 1923. These 'remains' were his chemicals. Without thinking too long about it, I dragged this box down into the cellar and started my experiments with the materials I found in it. These were my first chemical experiments. And as you can see, I survived. Luckily, that beautiful old brick building did not explode either. Finding this box was a key experience for me - from then on I wanted to become a chemist.

Richard R. Ernst was born on 14 August 1933 in Winterthur. In 1991 he received the Nobel Prize for chemistry for his groundbreaking contributions to the development of high resolution nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy (NMR). Richard R. Ernst studied chemistry at the ETH in Zurich and completed his doctorate in physical chemistry with a thesis on nuclear spectroscopy in 1962. From 1962 to 1968 he worked as a researcher at Varian Associates in Palo Alto, California, where he developed NMR Fourier spectroscopy, noise decoupling and other methods . In 1968 he returned to the ETH in Zurich. In cooperation with Kurt Wüthrich he made important contributions to the development of the NMR method for the determination of biopolymer structures in solution. He retired in 1998.
Richard R. Ernst received numerous awards, such as the Nobel Prize for chemistry (1991), the Wolf Prize (1991), the Louisa Gross Horwitz Prize (1991) and the Marcel Benoist Prize (1986). In 2009 the 'Richard R. Ernst Lectures' were inaugurated at the ETH Zurich. The objective of these lectures is to strengthen the relationship between science and society and to increase the general public's awareness of the issues involved in designing the future on a global level. This year Kofi Annan is expected in Zurich on June 18th. BUCHI Labortechnik AG is one of the main sponsors of this event.

Let's stay for a moment with your enthusiasm for chemistry and, at the same time, take a leap into another world: you are fascinated by traditional Tibetan folk art. How do you bridge the gap between chemistry and art?

It's important to recognise that analytical chemistry plays a role in all spheres of life. One of many possible applications of analytical chemistry can now be the analysis of pigments of Tibetan works of art. Perhaps chemical experimentation is my very own personal way of occupying myself with these marvellous Tibetan scrolls and of trying to understand them. I am sure that there are links between chemistry and art. However, I also believe that it is important to recognise the differences between them. Because it is the breadth of experience which is so important to us. It is a little like food, and the enjoyment of it. To have St. Galler Olmabratwurst (fried sausage) for lunch every day is utterly boring, no matter how good it tastes!

When you were young you played the cello and even wrote music. How would you characterise the connection between chemistry and music – provided that there is such a connection in your opinion?

A famous philosopher once said that if you only understand chemistry then you don't really understand that either. In order to understand complex issues in a certain field you need a broad perspective. Music is a wonderful means of opening people up. In my opinion, it is very important to have a wide range of interests so that you can penetrate deeply into the fundamentals of a specific field. You can only gain an in-depth understanding when you also have a breadth of vision.
However, in a certain way music is nothing other than spectroscopy. Music is acoustic spectroscopy, and what I did in analytical and physical chemistry was spectroscopy as well. That may sound a little strange to you now, but when looked at closely, one can see that analytical and musical spectroscopy are mathematically connected. As you can see, there are a lot of things that chemistry and music have in common. As I have mentioned before though, I find it more interesting in way, how the two fields complement each other in their differences.

What is more important for you personally: creativity and imagination, or knowledge?

Creativity is what constitutes man. I would even go so far as to say that without creativity, we are dead as people. There is no doubt that in a certain way, imagination is more important than knowledge. However, a creative person may very soon encounter gaps in his or her knowledge when they let their imagination run freely. If you reach certain limits in the actual implementation of your imagination, you will be very motivated to gain new knowledge so that you can progress. Therefore it's of central importance for us to educate ourselves further, when we see that it makes sense, in order to support our practical activities.

Professor Richard R. Ernst, how much, in your opinion, is measurable scientific success dependent on the personality of the scientist?

I think scientific research is something very personal. Because the individual researchers' inspiration and creativity is of central significance for the results. You can see the difference between a top level researcher and the equally high quality equipment that you develop and produce here at BUCHI. Your instruments can be programmed so that they work with a unique and infinitely repeatable precision. I do not believe that it is possible to program a person with the same precision. Therefore the personality of a researcher will always cause some surprises in the results.

After completing your doctorate you worked for Varian Associates in California on the development of industrial nuclear resonance spectroscopy. What motivated you to go to the States at that time?

After graduating from the ETH I was completely demotivated and depressed. I had enough of the university and wanted to get out into the industrial world and do something practical and useful in 'real' life. That was the reason for my breaking out of the ivory tower into the industrial world. I had five very interesting years in the States prior to my return to the ETH in 1968.
But the time after returning to Switzerland was a great shock for me and my family. Because I did two things which, in my view, one should never do. But we all make mistakes in our lives! Firstly, I returned to the same laboratory, where I obtained my doctorate and secondly, I moved back to the old brick house with my mother. That was bound to go wrong! After about nine or ten months I had a nervous breakdown. My nerves couldn't take it anymore and I wasn't able to work. Then I finally picked myself up again in very small steps. That was really a miracle. Somehow I managed that, together with my family. After that difficult time, there followed a very busy and productive phase for me at the ETH, which finally led to the Nobel Prize in 1991.

Do you think that you could say that the university lecturers are responsible for the design of the global future?

University lecturers educate young people. These then proceed to work in positions where they have a lot of responsibility – for example, at BUCHI. The top aim of a university education should therefore be to instill a sense of responsibility in the students. In this way, through our students, we university lecturers have an impact on the future.

In 2005 the Dalai Lama paid a visit to the ETH. In his speech he explained the causes of fear and anxiety from a Buddhist point of view - i.e. that they arise from a mistaken understanding of reality. Knowledge, or in his words 'wisdom', could lead to freedom and happiness. How do you see the connection between knowledge, freedom and happiness?

(long pause)
Regarding the word 'knowledge' or 'wisdom', I would prefer to use the word 'experience'. Because I believe that the point is more the ability to recognise the interdependencies in our world. In my view, when you understand these interdependencies, a kind of freedom will ensue. Perhaps this freedom could be compared with the feeling you get when you sit in an airplane, high above the clouds, and you can understand, from this elevated perspective, what goes on down below. You gain a bit of independence and perhaps, in that way, get a little closer to happiness. I must say however, that for me the notion of responsibility is of greater importance than that of freedom. Because I believe that ultimately it is the responsibility with which we treat our fellow beings that leads to a happy life. I am convinced that the Dalai Lama would agree with this view.

What helped you more on your way to receiving the Nobel Prize: good or bad fortune?

(he laughs)
I think you need both because what led me to the Nobel Prize was the tension between failure and winning. However, what is absolutely essential, irrespective of the goal you want to reach, is the perseverence to carry on even after you have encountered some bad fortune. I am just a 'stubborn' guy and don't give in so easily! I feel that this strong determination to overcome difficulties is important for winning such a prize.

Can you still remember the moment when you were informed that you would receive the Nobel Prize?

Yes of course, that moment is still completely fresh in my memory. I was in a plane on a flight from Moscow to New York. In the clouds above Scotland, the captain came to me and asked: "Are you Mr. Richard R. Ernst?" And I answered: "Yes, but please leave me alone, I'm trying to catch a little sleep". He replied that perhaps now was not the right time to sleep, as I had just won a prize – the Nobel Prize no less! You can imagine that I was suddenly wide awake! The joy was beyond words!
These were really wonderful moments on this flight from Moscow to New York. But I have to say – despite of my happiness – these were not easy moments. Because I would have liked to share the prize with two other researchers. But there was nobody besides myself, in reality I had won this prize by myself and that was not easy for me during the first hours and minutes of my success.

On June 18, 2010 you will again be welcoming a world famous personality as your guest. Your foundation, the 'Richard R. Ernst Lectures', will present Kofi Annan with the gold medal. What is the background to this award and what is your relationship with Kofi Annan?

This lecture was organized for the first time in 2009. The idea was that top scientists would be honored at the ETH for very specific achievements. However, I then found that there should be more weight given to the general relationship with society. It is a fact that Kofi Annan, as former representative of the UN, plays a extremely important role on the world stage. I believe that we cannot resolve the world's current problems without strong international organizations such as the UN.

What would be your advice to BUCHI Labortechnik AG, which is a globally operating family business?

I would say, carry on working as you have up until now! Because you are a shining example for the manufacturing industry. Every day you produce something completely sound and reliable. So you should pay the same amount of attention and give the same amount of care to your business as you do to the fragile glass products in your glass-blowing business! Because if we had more companies like yours in Switzerland,then Switzerland would be in a much healthier position. It is my wish that BUCHI will continue to flourish and I hope that you will continue to run your business as in the past!

Professor Richard R. Ernst, I would like to offer my most sincere thanks for this conversation. I am very impressed by you and your replies and am extremely pleased to have had you as a guest!

Thank you very much for this interview!